kungfuwaynewho: (b5 john smiles)
[personal profile] kungfuwaynewho
When you talk about TV, usually you talk about canon.  What actually, factually happened in the episodes.  Some people expand canon to include what the writers/producers/directors/actors have to say.  Some include books or comics or other non-TV stories.  Some include generally accepted interpretations of subtext - for instance, neither actually says it, but it's clear that John and Delenn are in love with each other well before the end of S3; raising that point would almost always be considered consistent with canon.

What I want to talk about is fanon.  The things fans come up with on their own.  I'm not particularly interested in fanon that contradicts canon; that's just being an obstinate fan who ends up bitterly hating the source material.  But those little details that people come up with to flesh out the universe, be it in meta or fiction or something else, that may or may not end up becoming generally accepted.  [livejournal.com profile] nhpw brought this up the other day, about how in fic, you see a lot of "Sheridan is a god in bed."  That's definitely a fanon thing.  We (unfortunately) never learned on the show itself about his prowess, so that's an interpretation that was left up to the fans.

What fanon things do you accept yourself?  Which ones do you hate?  What's your own personal crazy fanon?  Me, for instance, I like to imagine that Sheridan listened to classic rock growing up because that's what his great-granddad listened to - remember, "As my great-granddad would have said, 'cool'"? - and that when his parents were running around doing diplomat-y stuff, he stayed with relatives.  He probably got shit for it at the Academy.  But when he's in his office, late at night, doing boring paperwork, he just rocks out to "Carry On My Wayward Son" or something.  Nothing in canon contradicts that, so I'm free to believe it as much as I want.

Also, when I imagine events S5 and later in my head, I can just pretend he doesn't have his stupid goatee and ugly brown hair; that is contradicted by canon, but since it's just in my head and I'm not doing fanart, I think it's okay.
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Date: 2010-08-11 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com
Sheridan liking classic rock immediately clicked, I would have to say yes to that. I do like those little things that fans think of and that sometimes take on a life of their own and end up seeping into a lot of fanfiction, not just of a particular author, but of many. Can't seem to come up with a good example now... One personal example is that I always thought Will Riker of ST:TNG had a training in classical piano; it would give a nice contrast to his personality.

What I do hate is the kind of fanon that insists that people in shows are "really" gay and totally in love with each other. I personally am a big fan of the intense masculine conflicted relationship, and I can even accept that certain characters (male or female) are, in some way, "in love" with each other, but I think it takes more for two basically straight characters to just go and have sex, and this kind of fanfiction always leaves me very dissatisfied.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:18 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (Grey)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Oo! I've got a weird one, one that hasn't even become fully fanon in my head so much as "I really can't find any actual canonical evidence against it and I love love love it as an idea."

I think the Minbari have three sexes.

I'll wait for the laughter to die down. :P But seriously, I'm half-convinced (or at least convinced enough to think about using it in fic, which is sort of the same?). It all happened because I started paying attention to the variations in their head-crests, and I noticed that all the women either had the swirly-smooth version that Delenn has or, in the Rangers or the Warrior caste, the same sharp craggy style as the men... but there's two styles among the men. One is the sharp crags like on Neroon and Dukhat, but the other, which only seems to show up in the Religious caste (that I've noticed) is all smooth and rounded, but totally different from the women's. Lennier has it, Forell in "Lines of Communication" has it... and I can't think of anyone else, although we might see it occasionally in background shots.

The alternate theory, for me, is that the smooth version is the "younger" variation of the male crest, and that it grows craggier and sharper as they get older. Second viewing reminded me that Lennier's really not all that young, though, and then [livejournal.com profile] hearts_blood came up with the same idea of the three sexes, and we kind of pooled our crazy guesswork, and... yeah. It's a nutball kind of idea, but I'm a bit in love with it at the moment. When I first thought of it I was like "oh, no, we'd totally know if they had three sexes, that's silly," but... again, with the second viewing? I'm starting to realize that we don't know a damned thing about them except what they want the Humans to know, so it doesn't seem quite so crazy anymore.

And poor Sheridan. I love his goatee. ...Besides, Delenn totally tricked him into growing it. If he knew that Dukhat'd had one, he'd probably be a little worried. ♥

Date: 2010-08-11 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
Howdy! Well, if Riker had training in classical piano and nothing else, that would explain his trombone playing (ba-duh-duh-duuuuh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A)).

I've been sitting here for literally ten minutes trying to think of other fanon things from other shows - and I know that I know plenty - and I'm coming up blank, too. WTF.

Slash is such a touchy subject in fandom. I'm not necessarily pro- or anti- but I do think certain fandoms can get kind of myopic when it comes to shipping and slash specifically. I'm thinking of the kind of fans that reduce an entire show down to a single relationship, ignore everything else, and then go crazy. You know, the ones that end up on Fandom Wank. I think there's something positive to be gained from fans saying, no, we're not just going to accept a heteronormative view where everyone's default straight and just because the one relationship we've seen this character in was het that doesn't necessarily mean anything. BUT, I think for me is when it's an insistence that it's canon, like you said. Fanon? Fine. Personal fanfic ship preference? Okay. But when it turns into the "how I interpret the show is the only right way," then it doesn't matter if it's slash or something else, it's wanky.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:28 pm (UTC)
ext_6531: (B5: Delenn (shadow dancer))
From: [identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com
Delenn totally tricked him into growing it.

"Maybe I should shave it off."

"DON'T YOU DARE."

Next morning:

"...where did all my razors go?"

Date: 2010-08-11 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
OOO, I like it. I can buy that. And I'm immediately reminded of Lennier's apparently totally emo diary entries after he was just going to let Sheridan die - they were probably all, "She just doesn't like me because I'm not actually a man!" Or whatever.

Also:

Image

Date: 2010-08-11 09:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com
You see, I have this whole convoluted theory about how Riker actually enjoys playing the the trombone so badly, and not telling anyone there's an instrument he's actually good at. I have no idea how I came up with it though. I've never even written fanfic about it.

I have nothing against slash, either, but people tend to become so obsessive about it, it's just annoying. Also, I don't know a lot of people who can write it convincingly *and* be consistent with the show's universe, let alone the characters. People with whole personalities who have been developed by talented writers over years suddenly are cardboard creatures who can only think about sex. Blah.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:32 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (all love is unrequited)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Eugh. I feel much the same way about the emo-diary-of-attempted-manslaughter as you apparently do about the mustache. Better not spoken of. *Shudders*

...Although you're probably right about the diary entries. :P

Date: 2010-08-11 09:32 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (Grey)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Never doubt the fashion advice of a woman who nearly destroyed your whole civilization.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:33 pm (UTC)
ext_6531: (Random: Statler & Waldorf)
From: [identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com
I feel like that should be a bumper sticker.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:34 pm (UTC)
ext_6531: (B5: Delenn (shadow dancer))
From: [identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com
There are lots of fanon things I've picked up from fics, like the idea -- I think I've traced it back to [livejournal.com profile] leyenn -- that Sheridan's sister resides on Proxima. I try to avoid the stuff from the Minbari dictionary on jumpnow.de, though, because it doesn't quite gel with my idea of the Minbari, and I have some Issues with the fic that spawned it.

Let's see, my own personal bits of fanon:

- Delenn, Mayan and Branmer basically grew up together; Delenn and Mayan are distant cousins, and Branmer met them at school.
- David Sheridan (II) was mostly educated on Minbar, but spent his last few years of education on Earth, attending the same Jesuit school as Jeffrey Sinclair. Parent-teacher night with Delenn: A BLAST.
- even though we never see them, Sheridan and Delenn have a vast army of staff supporting their roles in the ISA. Sheridan's press secretary considers herself to have the worst job in the galaxy.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
Haha, I can totally see that. That is so Will Riker. This is what I'm saying! I'm just going to make that my new personal fanon. Will Riker is actually a fantastic trombone player, he just plays awful on purpose because he gets a kick out of everyone else in the room trying to be polite.

Yeah, the myopic thing. When it comes down to just the slash and nothing else, it's creepy. Like, that's totally why I refuse to even look at Supernatural fandom; not only is it the obsessive insistence on slash, it's between two brothers. NO NO BAD FANS NO.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:37 pm (UTC)
ext_6531: (B5: Delenn (shadow dancer))
From: [identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com
I have decided, when I stop crying-laughing, that Lennier's "diaries" are actually the log he was recording when he was tracking the Centauri, and are a sort of private prayer journal. Allegations that Delenn's version of same sort of descended into repetitions of Sheridan's name surrounded by swirly hearts are unproven, as anyone who's seen said diary has suffered a Mysterious Accident.

(I also wonder whether Lennier's journals make mention of Delenn's role in starting the war against Earth, and if Sheridan ever reads them. There's a fic in that somewhere.)

Date: 2010-08-11 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
I've only seen the show through once, so I totally did think Sheridan's sister lived on Proxima. I wonder if I just read it in enough fics already that it leeched into my brain. That's kind of amazing.

God, your second point - specifically about parent/teacher night - made me laugh. But yeah, I can see that, too.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
Now I want to do Delenn diary fanart. Dear God almighty. Swirly hearts - beautiful.

There need to be so many fics about Sheridan finding out Delenn started the war. I can't believe JMS just decided to never go there; when you've got some prime drama fuel, you GO THERE GODDAMN IT.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com
On a totally unrelated topic: your icon totally made me chuckle now because I remembered Worf's famous quote: "Sir, I am NOT a merry man!"

I love tv :-)

Date: 2010-08-11 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com
Ok, two things: I hate the emo diaries too.

And: YES to swirly hearts. :-)

Date: 2010-08-11 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
IKR! I love that episode because I love all the Robin Hood stuff, but I also hate that episode because I'm a Crusher/Picard kind of girl and I hate stupid Vash.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com
I have several pieces of very bad fanfic written solely for the purpose of making Vash die not only painful, but stupid and embarrassing deaths. That's how much I hate her.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
Hee! I actually like the full beard from the end of S4 and Sleeping in Light. But it was the combination of the goatee and the horrible dye job that just killed me. Every time they had an S5 kissy scene, I was just like, all I can see is that UGLY FUCKING ORANGE GOATEE.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
You and me. BFFs. FOREVER.

Date: 2010-08-11 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] indigoviolet.livejournal.com
EDIT: SORRY I was reposting to put both comments into one, and then you replied and now I'm messing up your damn LJ.

(Am I the only Sheridan fangirl who liked the goatee?)

Oh, and I always figured Delenn was in love with Dukhat. Mirroring Lennier's love for her. Maybe this is actually hinted at in canon, I dunno?

I have some more stupid and weird ones I don't feel like posting right now. :)

Date: 2010-08-11 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
Hee! That's okay; I'm g-chatting with a friend right now (that sounds dirty, fella), so every time someone posts I instantly see it and of course am like, "I must reply RIGHT NOW."

But stupid and weird fanon is the best!

Date: 2010-08-11 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com
Now I must confess, though: I also have a long-ish fanfic written about Beverly and Riker, post "The Host". *seeks cover behind couch* Don't hate me, please?

Date: 2010-08-11 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com
I will never speak to you again!

LOL, I can see Riker/Crusher. I have a bizarro crush on JFrakes, so I can understand the women of the Enterprise responding to his animal magnetism. And, you know, if Picard or Crusher aren't going to be with each other, I'd rather they be with another crew member we know and love and not a stupid annoying woman whose name means 'cow.'

Date: 2010-08-11 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] indigoviolet.livejournal.com
I should go to bed. But Crusher/Picard? I like you 60% more now. :)
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